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SPECIAL DELIVERY SPOILERS AND TALKBACK

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51 Re: SPECIAL DELIVERY SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 4th February 2013, 2:18 am

bblast616

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Ursalink wrote:OK, I have seen the episode and, honestly, I don't know what to say. I mean, sure, if you are looking for something to laugh, this episode is perfect. But if you want to see an episode continuing Ben 10's arcs, then I'll say this is the most "cartoonish", ridiculous and stupid episode of Ben 10 that I have ever seen. I just don't know from where begin:

1º) First of all, I can't believe nobody has noticed the two big references to old cartoon shows in this episode. They brought back memories from my childhood, back in the 90's. See:
+ Thunderpig's name, his clothes, the picture in his belt buckle, and then his battle's scream "Thunder... Thunder... Thunderpig!!". Seriously, people, can't you recognize he's parodying Leonor from the 90's version of "ThunderCats"? Aside of that, accusing Ben's for eating his father... That's incredibly stupid!!! (I mean, I doubt Ben will eat another sentient being alive).
+ In the flashback about Ben and Mr Baumann meeting when ben was 5 and a half years old (it was ridiculous to put the age in his clothes, by the way), the way he said "Mr Baumann", didn't it ring you a bell? That's exactly how Dennis used to say "Mr Wilson" back in the 90's version of "Dennis the Menace"!!

2º) Well, one mystery solved. Now we know from which episode did Derrick J Wyatt take his image of Way Big saying "WUT"; it comes from the scene with 11 years old Ben's flashback.

3º) There's something I didn't get right. Just before Psyphon started to talk at the auction, I think some people made some comments about how Psyphon was previously Vilgax's right hand, then he deserted and he ended becoming a laughingstock or something. Can somebody please confirm what exactly those guys said?

4º) Seriously, the guys in Cartoon Network are some big stupidheads messing up the order of the episodes. There's a lot of continuity problems in this episode, most of them because of the cameos. Let me tell you some of them:
+ First of all, Seebik and the rest of the Kraahos were supposed to be "under control" with Ester as their new leader; but they are back as bad guys in this episode. I think the explanation will be in the episode "Rules of Engagement", where they appear again when Looma attack. I just hope nothing bad will happen to Ester. I don't like her as a love interest for Ben, but I like her.
+ Fistina selling herself for a date in the auction with a Kraaho. In the preview of "Rules of Engagement", it was shown that Fistina had a crush on "Little Rook". Does this mean that story will end in bad terms or something? Boy, they should have aired "Rules of Engagement" first!!
+ Honestly, they should have made clear what kind of powers Toepick has. I mean, his only power is that is so gross and ugly than it can kill people by horror? No way, it must have something else. With that body, I guess it must have some grade of super strength too; and honestly, I doubt it can be even uglier than Ghostfreak's true form. He even reminded me Shrek when he says "Nobody beats me in a scaring contest". And since Ben didn't seem surprised by his transformation into Toepick, I guess this is not the first time he use it; which means he must have used it in a previous episode. (Another mess like when 16 years old's Feedbak appeared). On the other hand, maybe Toepick is one of the aliens Ben unlocked back in his 11 years old's adventures, just like Feedback and Articguana. (Derrick confirmed that Ben unlocked Articguana and some other aliens, probably the same ones from "Ken 10", at the same time that Feedback). That would be more acceptable.

5º) Like I said, some of the cameos in the episode brings continuity problems too. Not to mention that this episode takes the "cameo" concept in a tv series to the extreme!! Well, let's see:
+ Dr Psychobos: They should have aired the two parts of Showdown before this episode. The best guess we can get is that in Ben's final battle against these villains (Psychobos, Malware, Khyber and his dog) is that while Malware is destroyed and Khyber is arrested along his pet, Psychobos betrays his "partners" to escape. We will have to wait to discover it.
+ The presence of Psychobos, Fistine and Bubble Helmet doesn't have sense. They didn't manage to escape from prison back in "Outbreak", so they should still be in prison. How did they escape? Now that I think of it, the same problem happens for Liam's presence in "Store 23" and Fistina's presence in "Rules of Engagement".
+ The presence of the Billy-Alien has no sense. He's supposed to be an alien kid, friend of Kenny in the alternative future of "Ken 10". So you are telling me that, 30 years in the future, he's still a kid and a friend of Ben's son, after being associated with alien criminals?
+ Neither has sense the presence of Exo-Skull in the episode, since that was a mutated rhino created by Dr Animo in the future. What is he doing it? Unless, of course, they will introduce him in one of the "skipped previous episodes" and explain its origin and presence here. Which in that case, it would be another continuity problem.
+ Darkstar's cameo in this episode intrigates me. I hope this means in one of the "skipped previous episodes" he will make an official debut. I would like to see Ben fighting him without Gwen distracting his mind with her "delicious mana".
+ Some people said that SevenSeven and Slix Vigma appeared in the episode, but I haven't seen them anywhere. Did you see them, by any chance?
+ There's three cameos in the auction that apparently no one noticed. First, the Techadon Weaponmaster "Inspector 13" is in it. Second, Thunderpig can be seen in one scene, which is ridiculous considering Ben kicked his butt a few minutes ago. And third, a pickaxe alien, which it doesn't have sense either; when they are supposed to go in groups and work for Vulkanus.

6º) Honestly, Mr Baumman is an idiot. Learn about reponsibility? You are talking about a kid that save the universe multiple time and he didn't let himself to be corrupted by Diagon's and Ascalon's power to change the world. We understand your frustration about the destrucion of your car (and house), but that's not Ben's fault if you have so bad luck!!! However, I think Ben is a little idiot too. I mean, he could have used Upgrade or Jury Rigg to fix Mr Baumann instantly, instead of pay for the repairs, don't you think?

7º) I'm very intrigated by the "cat girl" with purple hair that appears behind Vulkanus at the auction. That must be the new female villain that Derrick promised us. It looks like a little silly, honestly, because it has a little "nerd" look just like Gwen now. He said his name is Nyancy Chan. He possibly had her debut in another of the "skipped previous episodes". Men, I really hate Cartoon Network's worker for creating such a mess here. I hope we will see her soon in her official debut.

8º) There was an alien at the auction that called my attention. It seemed an alien made of electricity and contained inside an armor; similar to NRG. I hope Ben could gain that alien form in the future.

9º) Finally, I'm a little disappointed with the last battle in the episode. Let's see:
+ We have Ben battling against Psyphon, Zombozo, Fisttrick, Vulkanus, Trumbipulor, Tummyhead, Sunder, Fistina, Octagon and Romboid Vreedle. They seemed a new version of the Negative 10. I really wanted to see Ben against another version of the Negative 10, but I expected a longer and more exciting trama than this. Besides, it would be better a Negative 10 formed by Ben's A-List's foes (like Vilgax and Aggregor), not members from the B or C lists.
+ I think the battle was a little short and easy for Ben, but maybe it was because the villains was just making random attacks; without any team work or something. Honestly, this was another perfect opportunity for Ben to use Humungousaur's power to grow and defeat the villains. It would have been more acceptable such short battle, especially when the last time Ben used Humungosaur against Trumbipulor, he had several difficulties.
+ Ben as Humungousaur throwing Sunder's glider to the space was stupid. I mean, Humungousaur is not as strong as Way Big, not even in his bigger mode; so how could he do that?
+ I think Ben was stupid, because he could have ended the battle instantly if he had used Way Big instead of Humungousaur. By the size of the roof, I think he had enough space for him.
+ Psyphon acted like a real idiot here, which ruins his previous image as an smart "minion" and now as a calculating/threatening villain. First, because of his surprise with Ben's goldfishes. Second, the way he reacted when he realized Ben had the Dwarf start and he wanted to recover it to gain money. Third, he thought Ben didn't have a chance against the last 10 villains, but he completely forgot Way Big, which Ben could have used to smash all of them at the same time. Fourth, he thought he could conquer the universe with a Dwarf star, even when he has seen way more powerful things in the universe, like Diagon. Fourth, he had to reveal Ben the Dwarf Star's nature with his big mouth, when he had a perfect chance to get it easily. And finally, the way he was defeated; afer being scared by Toepick, he just knocks himself against a fridge.

Sorry for such a long post. Well, opinions?
I respect your opinion because I'm usually more a fan of the action than the comedy, but you I think you're being a little too critical. I think it is so awesome that the writers display such a respect for the Ben 10 universe by showing us Ben as a kid, as a 10 year old, and in Alien Force in one episode. And did you see my list of villain cameos from this episode? It's an ode to Ben 10 history, which the writers really care about. Seeing characters that either haven't appeared or only appeared once is a real treat to long time fans like us.
I think you have to accept that this show is trying to blend comedy and action, more so than in past series. But it's actually working! and really well! You have to understand that Psyphon isn't one of the badass villains. You won't see Malware or Khyber or Vilgax (or maybe Aggregor?!) at one of these auctions, they're the villains that bring us the awesomeness. All the other ones can be used for comedy. And lets face it, villains are pretty funny. Very Happy


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52 Re: SPECIAL DELIVERY SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 4th February 2013, 3:20 am

painlee

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i wonder why Darkstar dis not went after the dwarf star since it contain a lot of energy he could have absorb it.

53 Re: SPECIAL DELIVERY SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 4th February 2013, 4:20 am

datdude

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painlee wrote:i wonder why Darkstar dis not went after the dwarf star since it contain a lot of energy he could have absorb it.

Because competent villains dont make for " funny " episodes.


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This just kind of says is all now doesn't it.

54 Re: SPECIAL DELIVERY SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 4th February 2013, 5:10 am

Tsuchimikado Motoharu

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painlee wrote:i wonder why Darkstar dis not went after the dwarf star since it contain a lot of energy he could have absorb it.

Cause he didn't want to

55 Re: SPECIAL DELIVERY SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 5th February 2013, 7:54 pm

Ursalink


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Look, guys. I'm not trying to be a faultfinder, since no one like those guys. It's simply that I would like to become a writer someday, and one of the basic rules about this career (as far as they told me) is that, even in the craziest story, you have to respect some "rules" about continuity; so you can't make changes without a reason just because.

And as far as I'm seeing in "Ben 10: Omniverse", they are doing almost anything but keeping a minimal of logic and continuity. We met Ben when he was a kid, and he was several comic adventures because of the situations you can expect from a kid using an alien device. However, after that, we met a now teenager Ben having to face new challenges; having to take a more serious attitude but without losing som of his "childish" spark. The adventures from Teen Ben 10 lasted more than the ones of Kid Ben 10: 52 eps from the original series against the 46 eps of "Alien Force" and the 52 eps of "Ultimate Alien". After so much time, I found stupid to turn the series back into a "cartoonish child stuff"; it can be accepted when we see Kid Ben's flashback, but it doesn't have sense to see Teen Ben in such ridiculous situations. And besides, ruining Dwayne McDuffie's fantastic work, now it seems they try to go backwards with several plots seen in AF-UA: Charmcaster as a villain again, Kevin not as a Osmosian anymore, Primus as it never existed... etc. This changes are as stupid as when Marvel decided to undo Spiderman and Mary Jane's marriage as it never happened. Considering the stories that came after that, I can't deny it was necessary to do it; but yet, it was a complete supidity to erase from continuity such important event in Spiderman's story like this one. And I'm not the only Spider-Fan who's still indignated by that.

So, for short, it's true that writers can do whatever they want; but yet, I see these abnormal changes as a lack of talent for writing stories. I mean, you can't put the main character into a trouble if you are not sure about how is going to escape from it, don't you think?

56 Re: SPECIAL DELIVERY SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 5th February 2013, 8:52 pm

ZeroRecoil

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Ursalink wrote:Look, guys. I'm not trying to be a faultfinder, since no one like those guys. It's simply that I would like to become a writer someday, and one of the basic rules about this career (as far as they told me) is that, even in the craziest story, you have to respect some "rules" about continuity; so you can't make changes without a reason just because.

And as far as I'm seeing in "Ben 10: Omniverse", they are doing almost anything but keeping a minimal of logic and continuity. We met Ben when he was a kid, and he was several comic adventures because of the situations you can expect from a kid using an alien device. However, after that, we met a now teenager Ben having to face new challenges; having to take a more serious attitude but without losing som of his "childish" spark. The adventures from Teen Ben 10 lasted more than the ones of Kid Ben 10: 52 eps from the original series against the 46 eps of "Alien Force" and the 52 eps of "Ultimate Alien". After so much time, I found stupid to turn the series back into a "cartoonish child stuff"; it can be accepted when we see Kid Ben's flashback, but it doesn't have sense to see Teen Ben in such ridiculous situations. And besides, ruining Dwayne McDuffie's fantastic work, now it seems they try to go backwards with several plots seen in AF-UA: Charmcaster as a villain again, Kevin not as a Osmosian anymore, Primus as it never existed... etc. This changes are as stupid as when Marvel decided to undo Spiderman and Mary Jane's marriage as it never happened. Considering the stories that came after that, I can't deny it was necessary to do it; but yet, it was a complete supidity to erase from continuity such important event in Spiderman's story like this one. And I'm not the only Spider-Fan who's still indignated by that.

So, for short, it's true that writers can do whatever they want; but yet, I see these abnormal changes as a lack of talent for writing stories. I mean, you can't put the main character into a trouble if you are not sure about how is going to escape from it, don't you think?

I don't get where the idea that Omniverse massively changed Ben's personality, Mr. McDuffie's team did in AF Season 3. True he did go back to being serious in times of crisis (Ultimate Sacrifice) but he still does that in Omnivese (several times but most noticeably in Ben Again). Ben isn't being immature, he's just arrogant because he's sixteen and he's saved the universe "like a million times", and that's incredibly realistic, perhaps shockingly so.

Also I'd like to address your idea that keeping to a continuity is the ultimate rule of writing fiction, it really isn't. The ultimate rule, goal and endpoint of fiction is to tell a good story, and that is something that Omniverse does superbly. Forget logic, forget what UAF was, these characters are fun, and the scenarios that they get in are compelling and quite well put together considering that the writers are trying to show as many returning aliens, which requires large action scenes in the middle of it all.
And that is why I don't think that this is comparable to One More Day. The changes to Ben 10 Omniverse are put there so that the new team can advance the character and create new and better stories. The spider-man team did the opposite, they panicked at how fast the character of Spider-Man was moving towards an endpoint out of there vision, so they removed the marriage to MJ to halt progress and move back into the safety zone, which appears to me to be EXACTLY THE SAME THING YOU WANT WITH BEN 10.

(Also One More Day sucks ass)

57 Re: SPECIAL DELIVERY SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 6th February 2013, 1:32 am

painlee

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um Way Big was smaller than usual.

58 Re: SPECIAL DELIVERY SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 6th February 2013, 2:08 am

Tsuchimikado Motoharu

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painlee wrote:um Way Big was smaller than usual.


He always is

59 Re: SPECIAL DELIVERY SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 6th February 2013, 6:01 am

Matt Wayne


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Ursalink wrote: ruining Dwayne McDuffie's fantastic work, now it seems they try to go backwards with several plots seen in AF-UA

Dwayne's wife and best friend don't think they're ruining his work. They were both frequent contributors to AF/UA. And they both story edit Omniverse.

Ursalink wrote: This changes are as stupid as when Marvel decided to undo Spiderman and Mary Jane's marriage as it never happened. Considering the stories that came after that, I can't deny it was necessary to do it; but yet, it was a complete supidity to erase from continuity such important event in Spiderman's story like this one. And I'm not the only Spider-Fan who's still indignated by that.

Hitting the reset button isn't always a bad thing. There's no reason that a story that's been told in serial form over 40 years can remain consistent. And "indignated" isn't a word!

60 Re: SPECIAL DELIVERY SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 6th February 2013, 4:01 pm

Bellicus


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Ursalink wrote:Kevin not as a Osmosian anymore

Khyber referred to Kevin as Ben's "Osmosian mate" in Of Predators And Pray, Part II! So that's an Osmosian reference in Omniverse. I think until things actually happen in the show to change Osmosian or Primus continuity, it should still be considered canon. I know Derrick has said things about them on formspring, so we'll have to wait and see if anything happens in future shows, but for now, what happens in the show is what should be considered canon.

61 Re: SPECIAL DELIVERY SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 6th February 2013, 5:14 pm

Ursalink


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Matt Wayne wrote:
Ursalink wrote: ruining Dwayne McDuffie's fantastic work, now it seems they try to go backwards with several plots seen in AF-UA

Dwayne's wife and best friend don't think they're ruining his work. They were both frequent contributors to AF/UA. And they both story edit Omniverse.

Ursalink wrote: This changes are as stupid as when Marvel decided to undo Spiderman and Mary Jane's marriage as it never happened. Considering the stories that came after that, I can't deny it was necessary to do it; but yet, it was a complete supidity to erase from continuity such important event in Spiderman's story like this one. And I'm not the only Spider-Fan who's still indignated by that.

Hitting the reset button isn't always a bad thing. There's no reason that a story that's been told in serial form over 40 years can remain consistent. And "indignated" isn't a word!


I didn't know about Dwayne's wife and best friend working in the story edit of Omniverse. My apologies if I have offended someone with my comment. I just hope that some of the stories that Mr McDuffie told us before leave us (like discovering the meaning of Ben's pink eyes in "Fame") will be shown in the future.

And about "hitting the reset button", I admit that sometimes it's necessary, but as far as I honestly see, I think this was definetely one of those times when doing it's a bad thing. You see, Aggregor's arc one of the best one of Ben 10's franchise; mainly because of the deep development and meaning it had for Kevin's backstory. And now, if you turn Kevin back to a "human mutate", that ruins the canon and continuity of Aggregor's arc. The same happens with the episode "Vendetta", where Mr McDuffie said that he would like to bring Ragnarok back. That's how I see it, honestly.

And my apologies for the wrong word. I wanted to say "indignant".

62 Re: SPECIAL DELIVERY SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 8th February 2013, 10:12 pm

bblast616

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Ursalink, here's how I see it.
I think that if we think of Ben tennyson as a teenager with actual emotions, not just emotions that are assigned to him, it's understandable that he would become really serious about Hero Time after not wearing the Omnitrix for four years. He went from having a normal life to trying to find his grandpa, working with one of his former enemies, and stopping what was probably the biggest threat he had ever faced, the Highbreed.
It's understandable that a teenager would get cocky after saving the entire universe and not being able to let the world know about it. By now, Ben actually does save the universe quite often; he's seen it all. This is a good justification for his laid-back attitude. He may have lost his progress in controlling the Omnitrix's higher functions, but hie has made use of the wide arsenal of aliens he's gather over the years.

Of course there are some continuity flaws, like everyone seem to know that Ben is a superhero in his younger years. But AF and UA were never too specific about Ben's younger years. If anything, they are BUILDING the continuity, rather than messing it up.


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63 Re: SPECIAL DELIVERY SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 8th February 2013, 11:49 pm

Ursalink


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bblast616 wrote:Ursalink, here's how I see it.
I think that if we think of Ben tennyson as a teenager with actual emotions, not just emotions that are assigned to him, it's understandable that he would become really serious about Hero Time after not wearing the Omnitrix for four years. He went from having a normal life to trying to find his grandpa, working with one of his former enemies, and stopping what was probably the biggest threat he had ever faced, the Highbreed.
It's understandable that a teenager would get cocky after saving the entire universe and not being able to let the world know about it. By now, Ben actually does save the universe quite often; he's seen it all. This is a good justification for his laid-back attitude. He may have lost his progress in controlling the Omnitrix's higher functions, but hie has made use of the wide arsenal of aliens he's gather over the years.

Of course there are some continuity flaws, like everyone seem to know that Ben is a superhero in his younger years. But AF and UA were never too specific about Ben's younger years. If anything, they are BUILDING the continuity, rather than messing it up.

Yeah, but I'm not talking about the five years where Ben "supposedly" didn't use the Omnitrix for five years; I'm talking about the kind of changes they are planning to do for the actual Teen Ben in the future, from Omniverse to beyond. I have been hearing things that I found ridiculous and mess-up the cotinuity of the past stories. Turning Kevin back from an Osmosian to a human mutate erase the importance of Aggregor's arc to Ben 10's universe, erasing Primus is a stupidity because we saw it having several important roles in Azmuth's past; and turning Charmcaster into a villain again is lame, as her new status as an "empty character" is way more interesting that the Charmcaster from the original series.

And besides, I have seen Ben's attitude just as the classic "teenage hero" who uses humor just to hide his fears and insecurities; and also to keep his mind calm without going "nutso" with such stress like protecting the whole universe from being destroyed. This is something that started back with Spiderman, and several teen heroes parodying the great webslinger have followed the same path: Kim Possible (sort of), American Dragon: Jake Long, Danny Phantom and Juniper Lee. Ben 10 is just the most recent member of this list.

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