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THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK

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26 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 4th November 2014, 3:54 pm

Sir_Ronald


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Is Bezel a villain? He looks pretty creepy.

27 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 7th November 2014, 11:33 am

MaskedKitsune

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No redemption for Charmcaster, it seems. Turning into a dragon ruins any chance at redemption.

It's good that Hex, Darkstar, and Adwaita are free now. Sucks that Charmcaster is trapped inside her own bag.

And no, Bezel's not a villain. He's a good guy.



Last edited by MaskedKitsune on 7th November 2014, 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total

28 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 7th November 2014, 11:35 am

Omniversed


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Just 3 aliens this time around, again? Eh, I'll give it a pass since this was another Gwen based episode.

But still, we could go for more aliens. We got so many at the start of the series, and now that it's winding down, the alien count per episode does the same thing.

So they tricked Charmcaster. Gotta say, that was a clever move made by Ben. Giving this episode a 6/10. I wasn't all that intrigued by Bezel, mainly because he seemed pretty weird.

29 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 7th November 2014, 11:43 am

PeruAlonso


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This is an outrage!

I thought Charmcaster would have a change of heart, but no!

She decides to turn Gwen into a totem statue and trap her in her magic bag!

Worst of all, she turns into a dragon until Ben manages to stop her.

I thought this episode would be promising but it wasn't! I hope the writers are fired!

30 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 7th November 2014, 2:48 pm

Uncle Grandpa

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i love this episode just for the inevitable shitstorm it's gonna cause

beyond that, it was alright. nothing special, nothing awful. xlr8 has taken the lead as most used alien (i hope he wins and finally gets revenge on four arms for screwing him over in os with daa). skurd was tolerable and actually kind of funny here, though as ben said in stuck on you, that doesn't mean i like him.


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31 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 7th November 2014, 3:07 pm

Sir_Ronald


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MaskedKitsune wrote:No redemption for Charmcaster, it seems. Turning into a dragon ruins any chance at redemption.

But she turned back human.  Unless you mean that anyone who ever turns into a dragon can't be redeemed, which makes no sense.  Suddenly dragon transformations are an unpardonable crime? Rolling Eyes

I feel the writers were trying to play it safe: they didn't want to redeem Charmcaster but they didn't want to take redemption away as a possibility. Hence the ending, where she isn't redeemed but is now stuck in a redeemable position (stuck with her reformed uncle and frenemy Gwen, who can help her.)

32 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 7th November 2014, 3:56 pm

AustinHolt2022

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Aside from the predictable response from Charmcaster not being redeemed, this episode was pretty good. Initially I expected a much different episode; Adwaitya and Darkstar escaping much earlier, and more action overall. But what we got was still pretty good, in my opinion. Bezel's a fun character, though not really what I expected. That's fine, though.

I also like how open-ended the ending was. She's trapped in Gwen's "care" for the time being. Redemption can still happen... I guess.

Good episode.

33 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 7th November 2014, 4:10 pm

Sir_Ronald


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AustinHolt2022 wrote:I also like how open-ended the ending was. She's trapped in Gwen's "care" for the time being. Redemption can still happen... I guess.

Also Hex's care. Redemption is VERY probable. As I said, this is an obvious compromise, and while it may not work for some who wanted the full-scale "Hope" redemption Dwayne was alluding to, it works for me.

34 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 7th November 2014, 4:37 pm

Tammar

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Enjoyable episode. The ending was good even though I would have preferred reformation. It also doesn't really make sense to me that Ben defeated Charmcaster, it would have been better if Gwen did in my opinion. Also, three aliens were eh, one more should have been used.

Also, when Bezel did the card trick, he was looking at the card, he obv saw the card, but yeah, that's just a little nitpicking...

35 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 7th November 2014, 6:10 pm

AleSir19

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I know they are characters that only want power because they want it, is like chasing something to cure some damage inside one.

This episodes show us different stuff that ended in nothing is sad but is true, we have 3 really well done episodes were Chamcaster was searching for something that in the end, she dont use and the writer of this episode explain all with the typical action of the crazy villain that wants to destroy everything and take everything for himself.

Was good to see in one episode all the powerfull elements of Magic and all the powerfull characters that manage magic, but i dont feel that along the episode we were going to some where, is like they do and explore so many things that in the end they didnt know how to end or where they were going with the story.

Is cool that Bezel the most powerfull magic user finally is in one episode and all this became together, but before in every other episode Gwen wins something (one charm of Bezel, the books and ceter of Hex) and now we dont know where all this go on.

For one side is good, but another is really sad, because Ben 10 will end and the explaination of Gwendolyn big magician is not coming from some episodes is coming from the same future that see again and again.

36 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 7th November 2014, 8:34 pm

Let Me Tell You Something

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Honestly I'm not sure if I've ever thought differently - I probably have - but Charmcaster works best as frenemy leaning towards enemy. There's oftentimes a push towards female villains always being redeemed so it's gotten a bit old, and it's nice to have Gwen's arch remain as such, even if it's a somewhat complicated relationship.

A lot of Omniverse episodes if not Ben 10 episodes in general leave me pretty satisfied yet expected "more" to have happened in an episode. This episode was pretty much that, though I did like it.

37 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 7th November 2014, 9:51 pm

Tsuchimikado Motoharu

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Well that was...I found that kinda underwhelming. Too much going on but none of it really delivered. Really feel this should have gotten some sort of two parter, really could have been better if arc 7 was the proper Charmcaster arc or something, expand on Bezel, and have Adwaita and Darkstar do a little more than just sit there. This wasn't very good at all.

Also, boring aliens, and repeated Skurds. Meeeh

I was hoping Ben would turn into Terraspin and maybe have that magic immunity thing come into play again. If it even exists anymore. But I guess not.

38 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 7th November 2014, 10:08 pm

Sir_Ronald


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Let Me Tell You Something wrote:Honestly I'm not sure if I've ever thought differently - I probably have - but Charmcaster works best as frenemy leaning towards enemy.

Well if Gwen has her way it'll lean toward friend in due time, but other than that I agree that Charmcaster works better with one foot over on the dark side rather than both feet off it.

There's oftentimes a push towards female villains always being redeemed so it's gotten a bit old

Not in this franchise. It's usually the males reforming (Kevin, the Highbreed, Dr. Viktor, Hex, etc.)

39 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 7th November 2014, 10:49 pm

Let Me Tell You Something

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Sir_Ronald wrote:
Not in this franchise. It's usually the males reforming (Kevin, the Highbreed, Dr. Viktor, Hex, etc.)
Attea, Looma, Ma, and Fistina somewhat. Charmcaster was getting pushed towards reforming in UAF. Given that they don't have many major female villains I think it would be bad taste to reform Charmcaster, arguably the most prominent female villain in the series.

40 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 7th November 2014, 11:16 pm

Sir_Ronald


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Let Me Tell You Something wrote:Attea, Looma, Ma, and Fistina somewhat. Charmcaster was getting pushed towards reforming in UAF. Given that they don't have many major female villains I think it would be bad taste to reform Charmcaster, arguably the most prominent female villain in the series.

None of those count as reforming, especially not Attea and Ma. They'd gladly start trouble again if in their interests.

It wouldn't necessarily be in "bad taste" to me, especially since she's essentially the female version of Kevin, plus even in this very episode they still push towards reforming as inevitable (hence Gwen's remark at the end.) It'd be in really bad taste to deem her irredeemable, since she was Dwayne's favorite character.

However, I agree that her reforming is best left never actually shown except maybe the aftereffects of it in the Ben 10k future.  Otherwise you lose potential for villainous Charmcaster stories in the present.

41 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 8th November 2014, 12:32 am

datdude

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That ep doesnt make any sense.

WTF was charmcaster after that she dnd't have with the alpha rune?

She seemed crazy because she was talking to herself in earlier ep's but once we found out she was jsut talking to the prisoners in her bag she was just giggling crazy.

Bezel was foreshadowed nowhere he just poped up like a clown bored with being all powerful.

Ben should have had his game face on alien force style if he though Gwen was in REAL danger but he was reading comic books.

This arch could have been awsome but it . oh wtf it omniverse ive said it all before.

DD out

42 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 8th November 2014, 12:37 am

PeruAlonso


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Is this the last time we see Charmcaster? 'Cause there's no proof that we'll see her again before the show is over.

43 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 8th November 2014, 1:02 am

Let Me Tell You Something

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Sir_Ronald wrote:
None of those count as reforming, especially not Attea and Ma. They'd gladly start trouble again if in their interests.
Their relationship is extremely different compared to other villains. While OV in general has given the villains a more playful relationship with the Plumbers most of them are arrested/continuously pursued.

It wouldn't necessarily be in "bad taste" to me, especially since she's essentially the female version of Kevin, plus even in this very episode they still push towards reforming as inevitable (hence Gwen's remark at the end.) It'd be in really bad taste to deem her irredeemable, since she was Dwayne's favorite character.
While I don't mind Kevin reforming as I didn't think he was anything great beforehand, Charmcaster is interesting enough as is.

However, I agree that her reforming is best left never actually shown except maybe the aftereffects of it in the Ben 10k future.  Otherwise you lose potential for villainous Charmcaster stories in the present.
Yeah, that or they can make the reformations as unlasting and vague as UA's.

44 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 8th November 2014, 3:39 am

Sir_Ronald


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PeruAlonso wrote:Is this the last time we see Charmcaster? 'Cause there's no proof that we'll see her again before the show is over.

Both a head writer and Derrick Wyatt hinted that we could see her at the end, in the Ben 10k timeline, and that she'd be living a happier life.  I'm not sure if that's redemption, but it sounds like it could be to me.

Let Me Tell You Something wrote:Their relationship is extremely different compared to other villains. While OV in general has given the villains a more playful relationship with the Plumbers most of them are arrested/continuously pursued.

Charmcaster isn't much different. She's still the rightful ruler of a realm, similar to Attea as Empress, and she hasn't been arrested, she's in familial custody (Hex).

Yeah, that or they can make the reformations as unlasting and vague as UA's.

No way. That wouldn't please anyone.



Last edited by Sir_Ronald on 8th November 2014, 3:42 am; edited 1 time in total

45 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 8th November 2014, 3:41 am

AustinHolt2022

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Sir_Ronald wrote:
PeruAlonso wrote:Is this the last time we see Charmcaster? 'Cause there's no proof that we'll see her again before the show is over.

Both a head writer and Derrick Wyatt hinted that we could see her at the end, in the Ben 10k timeline, and that she'd be living a happier life.  I'm not sure if that's redemption, but it sounds like it could be to me.

Where was this?

46 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 8th November 2014, 3:43 am

Sir_Ronald


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AustinHolt2022 wrote:Where was this?

The head writer, Charlotte Fullerton, on Twitter and Derrick Wyatt on the now-defunct Formspring. It was said during the aftermath of "Charmed, I'm Sure" airing.

47 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 8th November 2014, 4:13 am

Tsuchimikado Motoharu

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Sir_Ronald wrote:
AustinHolt2022 wrote:Where was this?

The head writer, Charlotte Fullerton, on Twitter and Derrick Wyatt on the now-defunct Formspring. It was said during the aftermath of "Charmed, I'm Sure" airing.

I don't remember Derrick ever saying anything like that, and I think I would know. Anyone who can vouch for his saying this?

48 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 8th November 2014, 7:37 am

Sir_Ronald


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I don't want to derail the thread from talking about the actual episode, so I sent you a Private Message.

49 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 8th November 2014, 7:15 pm

Let Me Tell You Something

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Sir_Ronald wrote:
Charmcaster isn't much different. She's still the rightful ruler of a realm, similar to Attea as Empress, and she hasn't been arrested, she's in familial custody (Hex).
Those traits emerged in UAF - which definitely seemed to have a change of heart as her endgame. I do think her condition is a lot like Attea's royalty, but I'd say her current state of capture is fairly different.

No way. That wouldn't please anyone.
Sorry, sarcasm.

50 Re: THIRD TIME'S A CHARM! SPOILERS AND TALKBACK on 9th November 2014, 3:28 am

Sir_Ronald


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Let Me Tell You Something wrote:Those traits emerged in UAF - which definitely seemed to have a change of heart as her endgame.

Since the story editors worked on UAF, it's just as likely that it still is her endgame....it's just that the nature of the endgame has changed: OV's endgame is the Ben 10,000 era, thus there's no need to have her develop a change of heart in the present day.

I do think her condition is a lot like Attea's royalty, but I'd say her current state of capture is fairly different.

It reminded me alot of Attea's capture in the Alien X episode where Attea first appeared, actually. Hex is her legal guardian, and he's having her essentially grounded indefinitely.

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