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Future of Charmcaster Arc

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26 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 28th September 2012, 5:59 pm

FutureFighter


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Lodestar's Advocate wrote:Kevin was mostly important in the OS because he was Ben's archenemy and dark counterpart.

Dark countepart, yes. Archenemy? No, that was Vilgax. Kevin himself called Vilgax this in "Back With a Vengeance".

That's a funny opinion, but again, wrong.

Two can play at that game.

Charmcaster fans in particular act so entitled and bleeeeeeh.

Strange, I had no idea liking a character and thus actually wanting them to be written well was "entitled and bleeeeeh."

YOU express dislike for how UAF did things and want OV to be better. I guess that makes YOU "entitled and bleeeeeeh", huh? Rolling Eyes

The only two human characters who were attractive at all in UAF were Julie and Mike.

Replace Julie with Eunice and I'd agree with you there.

The difference is people are particularly fixated on CC for some reason?

Again, because it wasn't really tied up thanks to "Couples Retreat" coming along and pushing it forward past "Enemy of My Frenemy", and that pisses people off. While she's not as popular as CC so there's not as much fixation, there's also plenty of people who want the issue Elena/The HIVE Queen to get resolved as well, since "The Perfect Girlfriend" also made that an issue and then it was never followed up on by the end of UA.

Conversely, no-one cares about resolving the hanging thread of King Viktor, since he's not popular at all.

But it wouldn't change that her portrayals and appearance in UAF were boring as hell.

Of course not. Fixing her character arc won't mean that the past episodes that exist in it are still there and still bad. But completely dropping it altogether is a really cheap way out, and while you may not care about her arc, alot of people do and not doing anything about it would be a middle finger to these fans.

So I'd rather they pick CC up from where she left off in UAF rather than give her a total reboot.

On that note: I didn't much like how Gwen was handled either.

You and me both. Or Kevin. Or Ben. Or....well, who would YOU say was actually handled RIGHT?

Yeah he was.

No, he wasn't. He was a hobo who was forced to feed off of dogs in an alleyway, got defeated by a literal push of a button and one punch because his manipulations sucked now, he seduced Charmcaster through literally no effort on his own since CC was being a moron, and then HE was a moron who couldn't remember a simple, 4-letter name, and CC promptly kicked his ass for it, leaving him pathetically begging for her to take him back. In AF, he was cool. UA? Not cool AT ALL.

Really, Mike is in need of better writing as much as CC is.

Is that a trick question?


Depends. What would your answer be?

A character need not have an arc to be interesting. Villains can even have story arcs without turning good, you know.

I never said villains DID need an arc of turning good to be interesting. I love plenty of villains who have story arcs or complex characteristics that end up just getting defeated or dying, unredeemed and unrepentant due to their flawed, villainous nature.

I'm just saying that this can't work for Charmcaster, since not only would her being evil again not make any logical sense at this point, but she actually has a MORE valid reason for turning good than Kevin did (who seemed to have several justifactions for turning good made retroactively, all of them sketchy.)

Correction: She doesn't appear as a badass enough. She has a lot of untapped potential. She was cool in AF, but her portrayals in UA were (you guessed it!) terrible.

Ah, NOW we're on the same wavelength! cheers

Yeah, Julie fell into the same trap most superhero girlfriends do: being written as a useless, whiny tool.

But "she has a lot of untapped potential"? Yes, I agree, she does. But so does Charmcaster, that's what I've been saying all this time. If you think of it that way, you ought have empathize more with what I'm saying about her. I want CC to be done right just like you want Julie too (not that I don't want Julie too, as well.)

So the rationale is: This is bad and I want it to be better!!!!
Okay.
I guess I can respect that?

You'd better, because again, that's what you've been doing too. With UAF, with Julie, with Vilgax....you've SAID you wanted OV to do better with parts of the franchise you've felt have been mishandled. You've essentially SAID "this is bad and I want it to be better!!!!"

So this rationale isn't exclusive to me at all; you feel the same way. Denying that would be hypocrisy on your part.

She could go shitbonkers, for starters. Maybe she can't cope with things. Maybe she tries to rationalize her actions. She knows what her father wants, namely to not kill everyone, but so what? That could be retconned away easily.

That'd be the kind of ill thought-out writing that you and I didn't like in UAF, though. It CAN'T be retconned away easily because it'd make no sense. "Couples Retreat" showed her past her breakdown already: she isn't shitbonkers, she is coping, and she's taking responsibility for her actions by ruling Ledgerdomain and not killing everyone in it, or doing anything evil on Earth. The only "wrongdoing" she did in that episode was because she loved and trusted Michael. Stupid, but not evil.

To change her character so drastically with no logical reason behind it would be "Enemy of My Frenemy" all over again. Is that really what you want?

It's not as if her wanting to bring her father back wasn't a huge load of bullshit as a motive.

Agreed on that point, but sadly it's been established as her life's motive (despite coming out of freaking left field) and there's really no use in changing that now.... Neutral

That's a dumb comparison because books are not cartoons and cartoons are not books.

But scripts for cartoons still have to be written, and I doubt the writers think about what a character looks like when writing them, they think about who the character is and what they act like. Well, that's what a writer SHOULD do, the UAF writers frequently didn't. Evil or Very Mad

As someone who is both a writer and an artist, I find such claims Stupid.

What have you written and drawn, praytell? Seriously, I'd like to know.

27 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 26th November 2012, 4:22 am

datdude

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Not to stir up an old thread but I don't think we'll see cc in omniverse. It seems they have a very narrow view of what they want that show to be everything else gets left on the wayside.

I like the arch cc got in alienforce/omniverse going from a one note villain sidekick to someone with a difficult past that made some bad choices we could empathize with.

Oh well we've always got fanfiction start typing people

28 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 26th November 2012, 5:23 am

Tsuchimikado Motoharu

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We already knew that though.
We already knew she's not int he first 40. There's only 8 episodes left to write in OV last we heard, chances are she's not gonna make it.

I can't see what the big deal is.

29 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 26th November 2012, 5:51 am

datdude

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Lodestar's Advocate wrote:We already knew that though.
We already knew she's not int he first 40. There's only 8 episodes left to write in OV last we heard, chances are she's not gonna make it.

I can't see what the big deal is.

Some people just liked where af and ua took the character.

30 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 27th November 2012, 12:22 pm

mace23


Plumber
Plumber
Whooo, well I quit watching the show a few weeks ago, actually I missed a couple and didn't care,
But I did think people would be interested in this

http://www.formspring.me/DerrickJWyatt/q/397107044764638133

DerrickJWyatt 16h
Does it work that she went from magic using super villain to being a homicidal maniac from a race of space elves who was obsessed with her father? Not for me it doesn't.


15h
The worst thing for me was yet again they took someone who was clearly human, and made them into an alien race (extradimensional race) who all have those powers. For me, that just destroys anything unique and interesting about the character.

DerrickJWyatt 16h
"The thing they don't understand is that once you do that, you often lose most of what made the character interesting in the first place. Also bringing up those UA episodes doesn't hold much water for me. While they aren't the worst thing ever,
smile"


uhhhh wow, did he ever watch the Highbreed season or Prisoner 775 is Missing??? part of the appeal of AF/UA is the treatment of aliens using them as a sort of parallel too conflicts such as racism and xenophobia. Just saying CC being an alien or another race negates her interesting character traits means she wasn't an interesting character too begin with. A character CAN evolve past there intital premise and descriptions. It proves DJW is just treating the aliens as just monsters with powers rather then another species that are equivalent too humans even the OS didn't treat them this way.
But I wasn't trying too stir up the CC topic, just giving a say, hope this doesn't blow out of proportion

31 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 27th November 2012, 12:51 pm

datdude

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Im not a fan of djw its like depth is a bad thing with him

32 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 27th November 2012, 1:26 pm

ZeroRecoil

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mace23 wrote:Whooo, well I quit watching the show a few weeks ago, actually I missed a couple and didn't care,
But I did think people would be interested in this

http://www.formspring.me/DerrickJWyatt/q/397107044764638133

DerrickJWyatt 16h
Does it work that she went from magic using super villain to being a homicidal maniac from a race of space elves who was obsessed with her father? Not for me it doesn't.


15h
The worst thing for me was yet again they took someone who was clearly human, and made them into an alien race (extradimensional race) who all have those powers. For me, that just destroys anything unique and interesting about the character.

DerrickJWyatt 16h
"The thing they don't understand is that once you do that, you often lose most of what made the character interesting in the first place. Also bringing up those UA episodes doesn't hold much water for me. While they aren't the worst thing ever,
smile"


uhhhh wow, did he ever watch the Highbreed season or Prisoner 775 is Missing??? part of the appeal of AF/UA is the treatment of aliens using them as a sort of parallel too conflicts such as racism and xenophobia. Just saying CC being an alien or another race negates her interesting character traits means she wasn't an interesting character too begin with. A character CAN evolve past there intital premise and descriptions. It proves DJW is just treating the aliens as just monsters with powers rather then another species that are equivalent too humans even the OS didn't treat them this way.
But I wasn't trying too stir up the CC topic, just giving a say, hope this doesn't blow out of proportion

You're acting like Aliens have ever been properly treated like people throughout the whole franchise, no alien race ever feels truly human equivalent to me. For example, the Highbreed are all racist overlords.
What, all of them, no one Highbreed has ever stood up and said "actually, this whole racism thing is a little immoral. Human's don't all have the same opinion on things.

My main point is this: as much as I would like the B10 universe to be fully fleshed out, like say the Star Wars universe, there is no time to catch the mood of multiple races in a thirty hour slot which needs enough action and jokes to keep the target audience happy, why try and meet in the middle and create a show that only slightly develops an universe while also balancing a teenager who can turn into aliens, when what you will ultimately create is a show that won't appeal to any particular demographic and will ultimately be terrible.

Omniverse has chosen a path and has stuck with it, don't like it, then there tons of other shows, heck, tons of other cartoons that could appeal to you instead, no one is forcing you to watch this.

33 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 27th November 2012, 2:40 pm

datdude

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@ZeroRecoil


True we are all free to move on if we don't like where things around going. On the same token after 7 years and 3 series of enjoyment we are allowed to morn series 4 going off down a road we don't like.

As long as we arent still watching every new episode just to harp on it all is well.

34 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 27th November 2012, 5:21 pm

mace23


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datdude wrote:@ZeroRecoil


True we are all free to move on if we don't like where things around going. On the same token after 7 years and 3 series of enjoyment we are allowed to morn series 4 going off down a road we don't like.

As long as we arent still watching every new episode just to harp on it all is well.



Number one,

I don't watch the show anymore as I mentioned at the beginning of the post.

Number two,

I haven't complained about any episodes that aired so far

number three,

I complain on the lack of alien equality, I NEVER said we needed every species fleshed out. The Highbreed were a misguided race who thought they ere superior too everyone else, The Forever Knights believed all aliens were abominations. The Plumber Kids were part alien, so they should be treated with equal rights too humans. Even in the original series episodes such as "Ready too Rumble" showed not every alien was some bad guy or evil dictator. I thought the Forever Knights shading away all the aliens and scaring them off earth, showed a massive inequality.


number four,

which in my opinion, I don't care for DJW taste. Like I said I was just giving an opinion, i don't agree with his assessment on Charmcaster or characters being more or less interesting just because of there race and point of origin.

number five,

I don't even mind B10 being revamped, but the fact it lacks some refreshing elements and I was something with more fresh ideas then what we've been shown. Even when you don't compare OV to OS/AF/UA it ends up being mediocre compared too shows like Green Lantern TAS.

35 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 27th November 2012, 5:36 pm

datdude

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I agree with everything you just said mace

36 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 27th November 2012, 7:10 pm

CBobb1234

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This is slighlty off topic...

37 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 27th November 2012, 7:40 pm

datdude

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CBobb1234 wrote:This is slighlty off topic...

True.

If we do get a continuation of the charmcaster arch I'd like to see it used to show the difference between anodynes and spellcasters. I'm pretty sure CC learned the name for what Gwen is in "where the magic happens" and she doesn't seem to recognize the term "anodyne".

38 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 28th November 2012, 12:09 am

Tsuchimikado Motoharu

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mace, I think you just completely misunderstood what Derrick said.

He never said aliens were bad, or unequal to humans. That's a completely ridiculous assessment of his attitude towards the alien species of Ben 10.

He said that Charmcaster being from some other dimension took away what was interesting and unique about her. It's not that she's alien, it's that she's alien. Which sounds stupid to you, probably, but is logical. She didn't lose uniqueness because she's an alien, it's because the reveal that she comes from a place where everyone does majyyks means that she's just one of a bunch, some magic girl from a magic land who does magic. She's not just some teenager that uses the tex voodoos anymore. She's not special.

Also, OV is more alien-equal than any other Ben 10 series. If you don't watch it, don't judge.

39 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 28th November 2012, 1:09 am

mace23


Plumber
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Lodestar's Advocate wrote:mace, I think you just completely misunderstood what Derrick said.

He never said aliens were bad, or unequal to humans. That's a completely ridiculous assessment of his attitude towards the alien species of Ben 10.

He said that Charmcaster being from some other dimension took away what was interesting and unique about her. It's not that she's alien, it's that she's alien. Which sounds stupid to you, probably, but is logical. She didn't lose uniqueness because she's an alien, it's because the reveal that she comes from a place where everyone does majyyks means that she's just one of a bunch, some magic girl from a magic land who does magic. She's not just some teenager that uses the tex voodoos anymore. She's not special.

Also, OV is more alien-equal than any other Ben 10 series. If you don't watch it, don't judge.
I've seen enough episodes too judge the rules of the show (6 episodes).

Like I said in one of my points, Point of origin or race does not take away from a character. Superman doesn't lose his specialty just because his entire race has the same powers he does, that doesn't take away from all the good he did for the people of earth.

40 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 28th November 2012, 1:20 am

Tsuchimikado Motoharu

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mace23 wrote:
Lodestar's Advocate wrote:mace, I think you just completely misunderstood what Derrick said.

He never said aliens were bad, or unequal to humans. That's a completely ridiculous assessment of his attitude towards the alien species of Ben 10.

He said that Charmcaster being from some other dimension took away what was interesting and unique about her. It's not that she's alien, it's that she's alien. Which sounds stupid to you, probably, but is logical. She didn't lose uniqueness because she's an alien, it's because the reveal that she comes from a place where everyone does majyyks means that she's just one of a bunch, some magic girl from a magic land who does magic. She's not just some teenager that uses the tex voodoos anymore. She's not special.

Also, OV is more alien-equal than any other Ben 10 series. If you don't watch it, don't judge.
I've seen enough episodes too judge the rules of the show (6 episodes).

Like I said in one of my points, Point of origin or race does not take away from a character. Superman doesn't lose his specialty just because his entire race has the same powers he does, that doesn't take away from all the good he did for the people of earth.

Except that Superman is by conception an alien from a dead race. Charmcaster is not.
Also that's pretty dumb to say, but whatever.

41 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 28th November 2012, 1:59 am

mace23


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Lodestar's Advocate wrote:
mace23 wrote:
Lodestar's Advocate wrote:mace, I think you just completely misunderstood what Derrick said.

He never said aliens were bad, or unequal to humans. That's a completely ridiculous assessment of his attitude towards the alien species of Ben 10.

He said that Charmcaster being from some other dimension took away what was interesting and unique about her. It's not that she's alien, it's that she's alien. Which sounds stupid to you, probably, but is logical. She didn't lose uniqueness because she's an alien, it's because the reveal that she comes from a place where everyone does majyyks means that she's just one of a bunch, some magic girl from a magic land who does magic. She's not just some teenager that uses the tex voodoos anymore. She's not special.

Also, OV is more alien-equal than any other Ben 10 series. If you don't watch it, don't judge.
I've seen enough episodes too judge the rules of the show (6 episodes).

Like I said in one of my points, Point of origin or race does not take away from a character. Superman doesn't lose his specialty just because his entire race has the same powers he does, that doesn't take away from all the good he did for the people of earth.

Except that Superman is by conception an alien from a dead race. Charmcaster is not.
Also that's pretty dumb to say, but whatever.
k, your point.. a character has too have some substantial actions and voice that make them an interesting character. I think that just saying race or change of race declines a character's credibility is a pretty weak excuse.

It's probably the biggest criticism with the entire revamp, just because x mythology(os) isn't like y mythology(af/ua), it's declared non canon for not staying truthful to x mythology. Even if y mythology is well executed, x mythology is clearly better just for being more imaginative or geared toward childish whimsy. Bagging y mythology for gearing more toward scifi elements.

A good example is that Anodities are bad because they weren't in the OS, yet some of the best episodes and characters in the series are Anodites. Yet a different franchise/fiction that uses energy beings such as Green lantern having the Star Sapphires or The Qs from Star Trek and get no foul points because they used in there source franchises.

42 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 28th November 2012, 2:23 am

Tsuchimikado Motoharu

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Except that's not the case. None of that is non-canon. OV is more respectful to UAF than UAF was to the OS. Just because it wasn't necessarily the best course for the show to take doesn't mean it's going to be ignored. And again, it doesn't have anything to do with race.

Anodites aren't bad. The fact that they weren't in the OS isn't bad Nobody's said that ever.
The fact that all of Gwen's power comes not from being gifted with magic but ALIEN POWAA is what bothers critics of UAF.

43 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 28th November 2012, 6:19 am

mace23


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Lodestar's Advocate wrote:Except that's not the case. None of that is non-canon. OV is more respectful to UAF than UAF was to the OS. Just because it wasn't necessarily the best course for the show to take doesn't mean it's going to be ignored. And again, it doesn't have anything to do with race.

Anodites aren't bad. The fact that they weren't in the OS isn't bad Nobody's said that ever.
The fact that all of Gwen's power comes not from being gifted with magic but ALIEN POWAA is what bothers critics of UAF.
I wouldn't take every word DJW says at face value, he clearly dislikes AF/UA from his comments on formspring, he only grudging accepts that AF had better writing but still does not believe it too be fun enough. When he clearly says there ignoring Ben 10,000 Returns as well as tempt the idea Kevin can be evil again, say Verdona and Aggregor are his least favorite retcons along with Anodties and Osmosians, and even mentioning there gone. That doesn't sound like AF/UA respect too me.

Completely embraces almost EVERY design and idea of OS no matter how good or bad it seems.


If anything it's like he's trying too make a carbon copy of the os with his own style but that comes at a cost.I'm not even complaining that it's not AF/UA. I was excepting a fresh new take on the series not just thrown in elements of the original series with no fresh spin on the characters, devolved exaggerated character traits even beyond what UA used, unsatisfying resolutions that are meant too be funny, it's almost like a caricature of the original series because even OS never went this far too be funny and failed. I also don't believe the series went that far showing us sight gags,and exaggerated facial expressions too get the point across, it's way too tell all

it's like all the characters are OOC and that's mainly because this is suggested too be there daily lives unlike AF/UA where it was only there night life or OS where it was just vacation.

The only reason I can think of that he says AF/UA is respectful is all the events happened but... they'll probably never used for story purposes again and will only be mentioned in passing. OS on the otherhand...

It also doesn't make sense why AF/UA had too continue the plot threads and ideas of OS considering it was a fresh take, making it's own ideas and using the os as a springboard such as the UFOs, even near the end of UA they managed too create new things. OV literally rips from the OS

Gwen is still gifted even if her powers do come from heritage, her learning ability clearly shows that, again another example of people going antzy over the heritage aspect of the storyline.



Last edited by mace23 on 28th November 2012, 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total

44 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 28th November 2012, 6:38 am

datdude

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mace23 wrote:
Lodestar's Advocate wrote:Except that's not the case. None of that is non-canon. OV is more respectful to UAF than UAF was to the OS. Just because it wasn't necessarily the best course for the show to take doesn't mean it's going to be ignored. And again, it doesn't have anything to do with race.

Anodites aren't bad. The fact that they weren't in the OS isn't bad Nobody's said that ever.
The fact that all of Gwen's power comes not from being gifted with magic but ALIEN POWAA is what bothers critics of UAF.
I wouldn't take every word DJW says at face value, he clearly dislikes AF/UA from his comments on formspring, he only grudging accepts that AF had better writing but still does not believe it too be fun enough. When he clearly says there ignoring Ben 10,000 Returns as well as tempt the idea Kevin can be evil again, say Verdona and Aggregor are his least favorite retcons along with Anodties and Osmosians, and even mentioning there gone. That doesn't sound like AF/UA respect too me.

Completely embraces almost EVERY design and idea of OS no matter how good or bad it seems.


If anything it's like he's trying too make a carbon copy of the os with his own style but that comes at a cost.I'm not even complaining that it's not AF/UA. I was excepting a fresh new take on the series not just thrown in elements of the original series with no fresh spin on the characters, devolved exaggerated character traits even beyond what UA used, unsatisfying resolutions that are meant too be funny, it's almost like a caricature of the original series because even OS never went this far too be funny and failed. I also don't believe the series went that far showing us sight gags,and exaggerated facial expressions too get the point across, it's way too tell all

it's like all the characters are OOC and that's mainly because this is suggested too be there daily lives unlike AF/UA where it was only there night life or OS where it was just vacation.

The only reason I can think of that he says AF/UA is respectful is all the events happened but... they'll probably never used for story purposes again and will only be mentioned in passing. OS on the otherhand...

It also doesn't make sense why AF/UA had too continue the plot threads and ideas of OS considering it was a fresh take, making it's own ideas and using the os as a springboard such as the UFOs, even near the end of OV they managed too create new things. OV literally rips from the OS

Gwen is still gifted even if her powers do come from heritage, her learning ability clearly shows that, again another example of people going antzy over the heritage aspect of the storyline.

True maybe we should be asking if gwens story arch will continue as cc was her rival after all.

PS I really don't want to seem like im getting pissy about DJW but that guy seems to be happy about throwing a few parts of the story i was in love with in the trash.

45 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 28th November 2012, 5:15 pm

mace23


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http://www.formspring.me/DerrickJWyatt/q/397800805329037645

"If UAF had never happened, I would have kept all the humans from the original series human. I find it much more interesting and diverse having mutants, magic users, and other super powered and non powered humans AND aliens. Sublimino doesn't need to be a Hypnosian from the Delta Quadrant, he's just a guy! I felt a lot of times that these retconned alien back-stories didn't really add anything meaningful to the characters, it actually took away from what made them cool and special in the first place.

So, even though Ben 10 has never been a show that was too concerned with continuity, we do have somewhat of an established canon to follow. In most cases for me personally a redesign is more important than a story revision. Ultimately though, we can make the choice to re-retcon the retcons if we want to. And some we will, and some will stay as is."

a redesign more important than a story revision??? it shows off he cares only about what looks cool rather then sensible storytelling, the characters, acting and story. A character is not defined by there power but how they use it. Did he ever judge AF/UA on it's own merits without thinking about the OS???

46 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 28th November 2012, 5:38 pm

ZeroRecoil

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mace23 wrote:http://www.formspring.me/DerrickJWyatt/q/397800805329037645

"If UAF had never happened, I would have kept all the humans from the original series human. I find it much more interesting and diverse having mutants, magic users, and other super powered and non powered humans AND aliens. Sublimino doesn't need to be a Hypnosian from the Delta Quadrant, he's just a guy! I felt a lot of times that these retconned alien back-stories didn't really add anything meaningful to the characters, it actually took away from what made them cool and special in the first place.

So, even though Ben 10 has never been a show that was too concerned with continuity, we do have somewhat of an established canon to follow. In most cases for me personally a redesign is more important than a story revision. Ultimately though, we can make the choice to re-retcon the retcons if we want to. And some we will, and some will stay as is."

a redesign more important than a story revision??? it shows off he cares only about what looks cool rather then sensible storytelling, the characters, acting and story. A character is not defined by there power but how they use it. Did he ever judge AF/UA on it's own merits without thinking about the OS???

Well, it's pretty weird that he got a job as a writer when he prefers designing things. Oh wait, he didn't get a job as a writer and his opinions don't matter that much to the overall show.
what you have to remember here, Mace, that Derrick didn't make these decisions. He's playing Devil's advocate for the writers, here he is stating his opinion, but at other times he's speaking on behalf of the entire Omniverse team.
So before you blame him for changes that the writers have made, try and show the great capacity for thought that humans posses, and Think!

47 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 28th November 2012, 8:14 pm

mace23


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ZeroRecoil wrote:
mace23 wrote:http://www.formspring.me/DerrickJWyatt/q/397800805329037645

"If UAF had never happened, I would have kept all the humans from the original series human. I find it much more interesting and diverse having mutants, magic users, and other super powered and non powered humans AND aliens. Sublimino doesn't need to be a Hypnosian from the Delta Quadrant, he's just a guy! I felt a lot of times that these retconned alien back-stories didn't really add anything meaningful to the characters, it actually took away from what made them cool and special in the first place.

So, even though Ben 10 has never been a show that was too concerned with continuity, we do have somewhat of an established canon to follow. In most cases for me personally a redesign is more important than a story revision. Ultimately though, we can make the choice to re-retcon the retcons if we want to. And some we will, and some will stay as is."

a redesign more important than a story revision??? it shows off he cares only about what looks cool rather then sensible storytelling, the characters, acting and story. A character is not defined by there power but how they use it. Did he ever judge AF/UA on it's own merits without thinking about the OS???

Well, it's pretty weird that he got a job as a writer when he prefers designing things. Oh wait, he didn't get a job as a writer and his opinions don't matter that much to the overall show.
what you have to remember here, Mace, that Derrick didn't make these decisions. He's playing Devil's advocate for the writers, here he is stating his opinion, but at other times he's speaking on behalf of the entire Omniverse team.
So before you blame him for changes that the writers have made, try and show the great capacity for thought that humans posses, and Think!


Yep and that's the big problem, he's not a writer but is able too suggest ideas, thinking he's above, if anything his fanboyism doesn't help too improve the stories so why should he get a say in the story?? a writer has too think above his own wants and think of the economy of the story, which he has obviously proven he does not. So in turn he gets 1/4 in say of what the ideas should be and all the writers have too execute said ideas.

The thing is anything can be well executed even if all the fanboys scream nay that they go against the mythology. It reminds me of the Ultimate Universe situation and saying "said character" can't do that because 616 didn't. I appreciate the AF/UA kept the spark and voice of the show while having something new too say



Last edited by mace23 on 28th November 2012, 8:24 pm; edited 1 time in total


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48 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 28th November 2012, 8:22 pm

GagaFan

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Human
Human
Charmcaster = Bad bad villain. She can't to do it good, must be kept in shadows, darkness, evil, schemes. To be good is opposite Ben.

49 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 28th November 2012, 10:10 pm

The Planning Man

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mace23 wrote:

Yep and that's the big problem, he's not a writer but is able too suggest ideas, thinking he's above, if anything his fanboyism doesn't help too improve the stories so why should he get a say in the story?? a writer has too think above his own wants and think of the economy of the story, which he has obviously proven he does not. So in turn he gets 1/4 in say of what the ideas should be and all the writers have too execute said ideas.

The thing is anything can be well executed even if all the fanboys scream nay that they go against the mythology. It reminds me of the Ultimate Universe situation and saying "said character" can't do that because 616 didn't. I appreciate the AF/UA kept the spark and voice of the show while having something new too say
I'm sorry, but are you forgetting that, as the lead designer, Derrick and his team have to design any of the characters that are a part of the ideas they choose to do? In a similar manner that "the writers have to execute said ideas"? It's best if they all agree. If Derrick suggests an idea that the others dislike, then it won't come to fruition. Simple as that. He's just as entitled to his opinion of disliking UAF as anyone else.

50 Re: Future of Charmcaster Arc on 28th November 2012, 10:45 pm

datdude

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Plumber
Plumber
The Planning Man wrote:
mace23 wrote:

Yep and that's the big problem, he's not a writer but is able too suggest ideas, thinking he's above, if anything his fanboyism doesn't help too improve the stories so why should he get a say in the story?? a writer has too think above his own wants and think of the economy of the story, which he has obviously proven he does not. So in turn he gets 1/4 in say of what the ideas should be and all the writers have too execute said ideas.

The thing is anything can be well executed even if all the fanboys scream nay that they go against the mythology. It reminds me of the Ultimate Universe situation and saying "said character" can't do that because 616 didn't. I appreciate the AF/UA kept the spark and voice of the show while having something new too say
I'm sorry, but are you forgetting that, as the lead designer, Derrick and his team have to design any of the characters that are a part of the ideas they choose to do? In a similar manner that "the writers have to execute said ideas"? It's best if they all agree. If Derrick suggests an idea that the others dislike, then it won't come to fruition. Simple as that. He's just as entitled to his opinion of disliking UAF as anyone else.

I think its more about us being used to asking questions like this of dwayne who was more or less the over all archatech unless cn sent down some kind of mandate.

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