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Opinions and suspictions (*Possible Spoilers*)

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51 Re: Opinions and suspictions (*Possible Spoilers*) on 24th October 2012, 12:18 am

Ursalink


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Lodestar's Advocate wrote:Yes
Also no.

It has been erased from continuity.

OK, I'm not insulting anyone here, but that's ridiculous!!! First, Kevin is an Osmosian no more, and now they erase Primus? Seriously guys, we can't trust everything that guy Derrick says. OK, they can renew the series for new child audience, but they can't just make drastic continuity changes like those. According to what I have learnt about writing, you can't make big changes in continuity without a good reason. And there's no reasons to explain so drastic changes!!! I think that when Derrick said this, he was actually saying that these stuff from the series won't be explored anymore. They are going to be still there, but put aside as nothing important.

I repeat, I wasn't trying to insult anyone; so please, don't get angry and don't start a debate.



Last edited by Ursalink on 24th October 2012, 12:23 am; edited 2 times in total

52 Re: Opinions and suspictions (*Possible Spoilers*) on 24th October 2012, 12:20 am

Uncle Grandpa

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Ursalink wrote:Seriously guys, we can't trust everything that guy Derrick says.

Yes we can.


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53 Re: Opinions and suspictions (*Possible Spoilers*) on 24th October 2012, 12:24 am

Ursalink


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OK, I correct myself, they can explain this drastic changes as "unconsciously changes" made by Ben when he used Alien X to recreate the universe in "So long, and thanks for all the smoothies". But yet, such changes are too big to admit them just like that.

Tsuchimikado Motoharu

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No they're not.

Primus didn't exist in the OS. It wasn't part of the concept and in fact contradicted it in several fronts.

Nobody cares.
It's gone.
Kaput.

Dealwithit.jpeg

PrimordialBorscht

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Lodestar's Advocate wrote:No they're not.

Primus didn't exist in the OS. It wasn't part of the concept and in fact contradicted it in several fronts.

Nobody cares.
It's gone.
Kaput.

Dealwithit.jpeg

I wouldn't say that no one cared, I kind of liked the concept.
But yes, I agree. It no longer exists. Ben rebooted the universe, it was erased from history.
There's nothing to really do but accept it.

Zero Degrees

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Ursalink wrote:OK, I correct myself, they can explain this drastic changes as "unconsciously changes" made by Ben when he used Alien X to recreate the universe in "So long, and thanks for all the smoothies". But yet, such changes are too big to admit them just like that.
I don't like it either and I think it's a little lazy...BUT we should consider ourselves lucky! Most retcons are as simple as "it just happened for no reason". At least we actually get an attempt to explain things and not ruin the canon.

Not to mention, there are very limited options when trying to explain a drastic retcon so this is one of the few choices.

I'm pretty okay with this Very Happy

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:No they're not.

Primus didn't exist in the OS. It wasn't part of the concept and in fact contradicted it in several fronts.

Nobody cares.
It's gone.
Kaput.

Dealwithit.jpeg

I still care...but yes, it's gone and kaput. We might as well accept it as part of the show and move on and keep enjoying!



Last edited by Zero Degrees on 24th October 2012, 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

painlee

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they reckoned primus as the new omnitrix record DNA as data form so not need for primus any more ,remember its no longer a prototype which the original was and the ultimatrix was even less finished.

PrimordialBorscht

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painlee wrote:they reckoned primus as the new omnitrix record DNA as data form so not need for primus any more ,remember its no longer a prototype which the original was and the ultimatrix was even less finished.

That's actually a pretty good fix. Azmuth wouldn't waste time uploading DNA codes into something that he considered to be just a prototype. He would only do that for the finished product.
But the current explanation right now is that it was erased from reality when Ben rebooted the universe.

Ursalink


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I want to share with you some things I have been thinking about:

1º) The episode "Trouble Helix" has proven once again something I said a long time ago, Albedo is an idiot genius. Just think of these previous ideas of him:
+ He was smart enough to built a copy of the Omnitrix but stupid enough to ignore Azmuth's warnings, leaving him trapped inside Ben's human form forever.
+ He was smart enough to steal the Ultimatrix and upgrade it, but stupid enough to make a alliance with Vilgax. Vilgax then betrayed him and imprisoned him; then he had to give Ben the Ultimatrix to save his life.
+ He was smart enough to gain the money for a device that could cure him, but stupid enough to not realize that he would call Ben's attention because of impersonating him. The result was of his experiment going wrong, without being able to return permanently to his Galvan form yet.
+ When he tried to trap Ben into his worst nightmare, he just slips on smoothie and let the Dream Eater bug falls in his own head; trapping him in the nightmare instead. For someone so brilliant and intelligent, being defeated in that way was pretty stupid and patetic. Don't you think?
+ And in this new episode, he has proven again to be an idiot. He called himself so brilliant, seconded only by Azmuth, but instead of making the helix to stop Malware, he turned him into a very powerful and psychopath villain. Way it go, genius!!
* By the way, there's something weird about Albedo. You see, in "Ultimate Alien", when we saw him as a Galvan for the first time, he looked like a young Galvan (younger than Azmuth, at least). But in "Omniverse", he has a different look as a Galvan, a look that makes him nearly of the same age as Azmuth. How is it possible? Maybe Ben's human form made him rejuvenate a little?

- One more thing, I just remembered the movie "Destroy All Aliens", where Azmuth's father appears much younger than Azmuth. Derrick J Wyatt confirmed that he looked young because Azmuth transferred his mind from his failing body to a young clone one. What a face!!! If all Galvans do this, it means they are nearly immortals? (If they clone themselves every time they are going to die, it's almost like being eternal).

2º) Guys, seriously, about that stuff of "Primus being erased" or "Kevin no longer an Osmosian", it can't be true. Sure, they can always explain everything with Ben recreating the universe with Alien X, but I just realized that theory has a big problem. Keep in mind that when the universe was destroyed, the only things unaffected were Ben, Alien X and the Omnitrix. (I guess Celestialsapiens can't be destroyed). Which means that Ben, even recreating the universe with all Alien X's powers, would have to create an universe that fits with his memories and stories; so anyone would notice something strange in the universe. Let me explain it better:
- If Kevin is no longer an Osmosian, or even if Osmosians never existed, that would affect a lot of past stories. For example, how Kevin discovered the truth of his father's death at Ragnarok's hands during his second mutation in "Alien Force". It also affects the Aggregor's saga, because he was an Osmosian; and if Aggregor never existed, then Ben would have never gained his "elemental alien forms" (AmpFibian, Water Hazard, Terraspin, NRG and Armodrillo). Also, the consequences of Kevin becoming Ultimate Kevin would never happen, so Ben would have never trusted Kevin in "Alien Force" to save the Celestialsapien baby and reform Kevin eventually. (Because of 10-years-old Ben in the episode "The Forge of Creation", just as Paradox said).
- Erasing Primus from history would also have big consequences to another important plots from the past. For example, in "Ghost Town" when Ghostfreak gained his freedom in exchange for revealing information to Vilgax; or Vilgax's attack to the planet in episode "Primus". Also affects Azmuth's past about his love story with Zennith, which involved Ascalon and the story of Diagon vs the Forever Knights. It would also affect the story of "Simian Says", where the problem of Spidermonkey's DNA sample turned into the return of the DNAliens.
* By the way, I have read rumors about Primus being turned into data and put inside the new Omnitrix. Can somebody tell me if that's right?
- I assure you, somewhere it was told by Derrick that the Anodites were erased from continuity too; however, the recent preview of Gwen turning into that "Anodite Lucky Girl", next to the new Mr Smoothie, proves that's false. As far as I see, when they said that about Kevin and Primus, what they actually wanted to say is that those would be elements explored no more.

3º) I need to ask you something. I just can't, but if anyone else can, please ask in Derrick's site when we will see Julie's debut in Omniverse. I really miss her.

OK, that's all.

Uncle Grandpa

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Ursalink wrote:
2º) Guys, seriously, about that stuff of "Primus being erased" or "Kevin no longer an Osmosian", it can't be true.

It can and is. They retconned them. Gone. I may not like it, you may not like it, but that's what happened.


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ultraalien


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It doesn't matter if primus, anodites, or osmosians were erased it doesn't play any major role in the series.

By the way anodites and osmosians are still in omniverse as said by Matt Wayne it just don't have a major role.

Ursalink


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I forgot to mention something else. Some of you says that Primus didn't exist in the original series; but actually, it could exist, just we didn't know yet. When we were seeing the original series for the first time, the producers were way ahead in the stories of Ben 10; it's highly possible that for the second or third season of the original series, they already finished the first two seasons for Alien Force. When you work in a TV series, you have to be way ahead of what it's airing at the moment; so in case the series would gain popularity, it can be continued for all the time possible.

63 Re: Opinions and suspictions (*Possible Spoilers*) on 26th October 2012, 11:38 pm

PrimordialBorscht

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Err, I don't know what you mean about Albedo appearing to be as old as Azmuth in "Trouble Helix". He was clearly a young Galvan. As Dwayne and Derrick have both said, he is only a few hundred years old.



Last edited by PrimordialBorscht on 27th October 2012, 2:11 am; edited 1 time in total

64 Re: Opinions and suspictions (*Possible Spoilers*) on 27th October 2012, 12:03 am

Ursalink


Plumber
Plumber
PrimordialBorscht wrote:Err, I don't know what you mean about Albedo appearing to be as old as Azmuth in "Trouble Helix". He was clearly a young Galvan. As Dwayne and Derrick has both said, he is only a few hundred years old.

Azmuth looks like old because of his "moustache/beard", and the first time we saw Albedo as a Galvan in "Ultimate Alien", he looked like pretty young just like Greymatter. But in his appearance in Omniverse, he has some "moustache/beard" just like Azmuth, but shorter. That's why I'm a little confused.

65 Re: Opinions and suspictions (*Possible Spoilers*) on 27th October 2012, 12:28 am

PrimordialBorscht

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Ursalink wrote:
PrimordialBorscht wrote:Err, I don't know what you mean about Albedo appearing to be as old as Azmuth in "Trouble Helix". He was clearly a young Galvan. As Dwayne and Derrick has both said, he is only a few hundred years old.

Azmuth looks like old because of his "moustache/beard", and the first time we saw Albedo as a Galvan in "Ultimate Alien", he looked like pretty young just like Greymatter. But in his appearance in Omniverse, he has some "moustache/beard" just like Azmuth, but shorter. That's why I'm a little confused.

Younger humans can have beards and mustaches, I assume the same goes for Galvan as well. A lot of Galvan seem to have those tendrils in Omniverse.

66 Re: Opinions and suspictions (*Possible Spoilers*) on 27th October 2012, 12:45 am

Tsuchimikado Motoharu

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Ursalink wrote:
PrimordialBorscht wrote:Err, I don't know what you mean about Albedo appearing to be as old as Azmuth in "Trouble Helix". He was clearly a young Galvan. As Dwayne and Derrick has both said, he is only a few hundred years old.

Azmuth looks like old because of his "moustache/beard", and the first time we saw Albedo as a Galvan in "Ultimate Alien", he looked like pretty young just like Greymatter. But in his appearance in Omniverse, he has some "moustache/beard" just like Azmuth, but shorter. That's why I'm a little confused.

That can be explained by the fact that everyone in UAF looked the same.

67 Re: Opinions and suspictions (*Possible Spoilers*) on 27th October 2012, 12:53 am

PrimordialBorscht

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Lodestar's Advocate wrote:
Ursalink wrote:
PrimordialBorscht wrote:Err, I don't know what you mean about Albedo appearing to be as old as Azmuth in "Trouble Helix". He was clearly a young Galvan. As Dwayne and Derrick has both said, he is only a few hundred years old.

Azmuth looks like old because of his "moustache/beard", and the first time we saw Albedo as a Galvan in "Ultimate Alien", he looked like pretty young just like Greymatter. But in his appearance in Omniverse, he has some "moustache/beard" just like Azmuth, but shorter. That's why I'm a little confused.

That can be explained by the fact that everyone in UAF looked the same.

In UA and AF season 3, yes. I agree. It was very irritating. But AF Seasons 1-2 actually put effort into background character design. The Galvan on Galvan Prime during "War of the Worlds" were all different and diverse.

Zero Degrees

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OS and OV are the best in background characters and design.

69 Re: Opinions and suspictions (*Possible Spoilers*) on 12th November 2012, 8:58 pm

Ursalink


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I wanted to see Gwen and Kevin back since they left, but after seeing the episode "Many Happy Returns"... I definetly don't want to see them again!!! Jeez, college doesn't suit well to people!! And after the mess Ben was trapped with Princess Looma by Kevin's fault, I want Ben kills him!!! Kevin didn't deserve it after becoming "Ultimate Kevin 11", but now he deserves big time!!

Anyway, although I don't want Kevin and Gwen back anymore, I still think Ben needs a team to work. Until now, with just Rook, all the episodes seem a classical and boring police tv series. I want a little more teenage drama, just like in Alien Force and Ultimate Alien. That's why I think they should bring back old characters to form a new "Ben's team" in this series. And I know just the perfect cadidates for this:
- Ben Tennyson: Obviously, he would be like the "cool leader".
- Helen Wheels: Back when the team of Helen-Manny-Pierce was active, it was like an homologate of Ben's team. Helens had Gwen's role in their team, so she would be the perfect substitute.
- Manny Armstrong: He had Kevin's role in his team, so he would be his perfect substitute; and he's a lot less "jerk". And since Pierce had Ben's role but now he's dead (although I expect they will find a way to bring him back), Ben working with Helen and Manny will complement each others.
- Alan Albright: Not a clear role in the team, but as a member of the Plumber's Helpers, he would be very useful and could work good along with Ben, Helen and Manny. Besides, since Ben now has access to their alien forms (Fourarms, XLR8 and Heatblast), Ben surely can teach them a lot of new tricks when Ben can't go alien.
- Cooper Daniels: It's clear that his technological powers would be useful for most of situations. Besides, since he looks so much like Kevin (but as an "honest version"), he can suit even more.
- Rook Blonko: The same role until now, as the "rookie-by-the-book", but now he can learn to work in a team and have more "sources" to learn "human language".
- Jimmy Jones: Not exactly an official member of the team because he's still too young; but as the computer guy who investigate everything and gathers information, he's really useful. In a lower level, he's like Wade Load from "Kim Possible".

Another point that I want to see back here is Ben's love story. I'm staring to think that he's becoming just like his grampa Max, a "ladies' man". (Max had Verdona and Xylene back in his days, so who knows how many other ladies fell at his feet). First Ester, and now this mess with Princess Looma. I want to see Julie back!!! And something tells she's going to blow if she discovers the whole incident with Princess Looma. And not just Julie:
- Elena Validus (The Queen): She swore to return in his last appearance, so I hope it will soon. I keep suspicting about my theory that Elena will try to merge herself with Julie in one more attempt to gain Ben for herself.
- Eunice: Yeah, I know the whole stuff of having Gwen's DNA, the danger of possibly being related by DNA and all stuff. But still, I see her as the perfect girl for Ben; maybe because she has similar powers to Ben's by being a "living Omnitrix". Besides, Dwayne said that we will see why Azmuth said that the Unitrix (Eunice) is dangerous; which means she will have to return.

I'm even starting to think that, maybe, Ben's perfect girlfriend could be one able to transform into all his previous girlfriends; using their powers as heroines. It could be Eunice (a living Omnitrix) with the DNA and powers of Ben's other love interests:
- Julie with her Mechamorph battle armor from Ship.
- Elena with her Queen's powers, but in a less creepy way.
- Ester with her Kraaho's powers, like elasticity.
- And why not? Princess Looma with her tetramand's superstrength.

Well, what do you think of this?

70 Re: Opinions and suspictions (*Possible Spoilers*) on 12th November 2012, 11:05 pm

Uncle Grandpa

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Ursalink wrote:
- Eunice: Yeah, I know the whole stuff of having Gwen's DNA, the danger of possibly being related by DNA and all stuff. But still, I see her as the perfect girl for Ben; maybe because she has similar powers to Ben's by being a "living Omnitrix". Besides, Dwayne said that we will see why Azmuth said that the Unitrix (Eunice) is dangerous; which means she will have to return.
?

Dwayne isn't in charge anymore, and Derrick says she hasn't returned yet.


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71 Re: Opinions and suspictions (*Possible Spoilers*) on 12th November 2012, 11:12 pm

ultraalien


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OprahWinfrey62 wrote:
Ursalink wrote:
- Eunice: Yeah, I know the whole stuff of having Gwen's DNA, the danger of possibly being related by DNA and all stuff. But still, I see her as the perfect girl for Ben; maybe because she has similar powers to Ben's by being a "living Omnitrix". Besides, Dwayne said that we will see why Azmuth said that the Unitrix (Eunice) is dangerous; which means she will have to return.
?

Dwayne isn't in charge anymore, and Derrick says she hasn't returned yet.

Technically Matt Youngberg is the real person in charge of Omniverse. Story Editors like Matt Wayne and charlotte fullerton oversee the writers and Derrick Wyatt oversee the artist.

72 Re: Opinions and suspictions (*Possible Spoilers*) on 12th November 2012, 11:18 pm

ZeroRecoil

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ultraalien wrote:
OprahWinfrey62 wrote:
Ursalink wrote:
- Eunice: Yeah, I know the whole stuff of having Gwen's DNA, the danger of possibly being related by DNA and all stuff. But still, I see her as the perfect girl for Ben; maybe because she has similar powers to Ben's by being a "living Omnitrix". Besides, Dwayne said that we will see why Azmuth said that the Unitrix (Eunice) is dangerous; which means she will have to return.
?

Dwayne isn't in charge anymore, and Derrick says she hasn't returned yet.

Technically Matt Youngberg is the real person in charge of Omniverse. Story Editors like Matt Wayne and charlotte fullerton oversee the writers and Derrick Wyatt oversee the artist.

Regardless, Derrick has a very wide reach. He may only be in charge of the art, but Derrick's special something is the story editor's currently biggest card to getting the franchise back to its former glory, and they wan't to keep him happy. Have you noticed that any change to UAF that Derrick personally never liked got retconed for Omniverse.
Just a thought.

73 Re: Opinions and suspictions (*Possible Spoilers*) on 12th November 2012, 11:25 pm

Uncle Grandpa

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ZeroRecoil wrote:
ultraalien wrote:
OprahWinfrey62 wrote:
Ursalink wrote:
- Eunice: Yeah, I know the whole stuff of having Gwen's DNA, the danger of possibly being related by DNA and all stuff. But still, I see her as the perfect girl for Ben; maybe because she has similar powers to Ben's by being a "living Omnitrix". Besides, Dwayne said that we will see why Azmuth said that the Unitrix (Eunice) is dangerous; which means she will have to return.
?

Dwayne isn't in charge anymore, and Derrick says she hasn't returned yet.

Technically Matt Youngberg is the real person in charge of Omniverse. Story Editors like Matt Wayne and charlotte fullerton oversee the writers and Derrick Wyatt oversee the artist.

Regardless, Derrick has a very wide reach. He may only be in charge of the art, but Derrick's special something is the story editor's currently biggest card to getting the franchise back to its former glory, and they wan't to keep him happy. Have you noticed that any change to UAF that Derrick personally never liked got retconed for Omniverse.
Just a thought.

And I'm not even saying that it was his decision, just that he's the one who told us.


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74 Re: Opinions and suspictions (*Possible Spoilers*) on 12th November 2012, 11:30 pm

Ursalink


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OprahWinfrey62 wrote:
Ursalink wrote:
- Eunice: Yeah, I know the whole stuff of having Gwen's DNA, the danger of possibly being related by DNA and all stuff. But still, I see her as the perfect girl for Ben; maybe because she has similar powers to Ben's by being a "living Omnitrix". Besides, Dwayne said that we will see why Azmuth said that the Unitrix (Eunice) is dangerous; which means she will have to return.
?

Dwayne isn't in charge anymore, and Derrick says she hasn't returned yet.

Maybe he's not in charge; in fact, he's not in charge of anything. (Rest In Peace). However, his work still exist; since the script of the two first episodes were partly written by him. Like I have said many times, the producers are way ahead of what we see on TV. Who knows how many scripts Dwayne McDuffie wrote before dying. And although they can change them, I highly doubt that they won't use the last work of a genius like him.

75 Re: Opinions and suspictions (*Possible Spoilers*) on 12th November 2012, 11:33 pm

Uncle Grandpa

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Ursalink wrote:
OprahWinfrey62 wrote:
Ursalink wrote:
- Eunice: Yeah, I know the whole stuff of having Gwen's DNA, the danger of possibly being related by DNA and all stuff. But still, I see her as the perfect girl for Ben; maybe because she has similar powers to Ben's by being a "living Omnitrix". Besides, Dwayne said that we will see why Azmuth said that the Unitrix (Eunice) is dangerous; which means she will have to return.
?

Dwayne isn't in charge anymore, and Derrick says she hasn't returned yet.

Maybe he's not in charge; in fact, he's not in charge of anything. (Rest In Peace). However, his work still exist; since the script of the two first episodes were partly written by him. Like I have said many times, the producers are way ahead of what we see on TV. Who knows how many scripts Dwayne McDuffie wrote before dying. And although they can change them, I highly doubt that they won't use the last work of a genius like him.

Even if Dwayne has a few more scripts, Eunice isn't in any. Derrick says she isn't in OV, and I believe him because she would need a redesign, which is his job.


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